The Battledome, solved

[professorelite]

I've figured it out! I've finally solved the issue with the battledome that has thrown off calculations for so long. What lead me to this problem was a puzzling problem presented in the following thread:

http://forums.finalhit.org/showthread.php?tid=14117

Test after test shown that the Scarab Ring should be 6 actual icon, yet that thread poised an apparent paradox... logically it should be 5.5... but it's 6!?


In trying to solve this, I decided to use the Cloudy Wand of Storms. I picked it because it was a fractional and the .2 when paired with the Scarab Ring would hopefully cause the Scarab Ring to round differrently. Yet, as I did this, I couldn't help but notice that the Cloudy Wand of Storms seemed to also be doing less damage than it should!

According to the calculator, to do 14 damage with a 20 boost pet the iconage would have to be between 6.391 - 6.863! This is clearly below the 7.2 listed in IDB's database. "What's going on here?" I asked myself. 7.2 should be doing 15 damage, not 14. I then proceded to isolate each icon type individually in order figure out the fractionals.

Pets used for testing (both belong to me):
Dagernite: 20 STR boost
iluvguyz: 20 DEF boost

Shields used:
Flaming Oven Gloves
Earthen Scorchstone
Lesser Defence Scroll


First I proved that the dark icons were between 2.5 - 2.603

2.131 - 2.603



2.5 - 3.055

I got identical numbers for fire so I won't bother posting screenshots... this means fire iconage is also between 2.5 - 2.603


Next, I proved that water's iconage was between 1.945 - 2.244; this I didn't try to narrow further because it was about there that I reached enlightenment which made it unnecessary.

1.945 - 2.499


1.837 - 2.244

Let's tally up these numbers:
Dark and Fire each must be above 2.5.
Water must be above 1.945

This mean the minimum icons of them combined is 6.945... wait a sec... didn't the first screenshot say that the unblocked wand was between 6.391 - 6.863?! Wouldn't this make it impossible?


I figured out how to solve this paradox! Here's my breakthrough:

Fire and Dark each did 5 damage.

Water did 4 damage.

5 + 5 + 4 = 14


This resolves the paradox in http://forums.finalhit.org/showthread.php?tid=14117 as well!

Look (35 STR boost, Jump & Attack/Fierce):

Goo Blaster:
Earth: 3 = 8 Damage
Physical: 3 = 8
Water: 5 = 14

8 + 8 + 14 = 30

Scarab Ring:
Dark: 2 = 5
Water: 2 = 5
Physical: 2 = 5

5 + 5 + 5 = 15

30 + 15 = 45!


Now lets do it by total icons in each weapon:
Goo Blaster: 11 = 30
Scarab Ring: 6 = 16

30 + 16 = 46... which is wrong


This means we must calculate each icon type for each weapon individually instead of collectively if we want correct numbers! This resolves the paradox that would imply that Scarab Ring is a fractional 5.5 icons.

Our current best calculators are on:
http://idb.finalhit.org/uploads/92%25/ca...tml#damage


However, considering this, we'lll need to revise the calculator to individually accept each icon type for each weapon.


PS: Simply summing the icons for both weapons doesn't work either.

Goo Blaster + Scarab Ring
Water: 7 = 19
Physical: 5 = 14
Earth: 3 = 8
Dark: 2 = 5

19 + 14 + 8 + 5 = 46... wrong... so the weapons must be held separate.


Hopefully this will increase precision in IDB testing and resolve the last paradox. I don't know if anybody has discovered this before, but I certainly have heard nothing about it.

[sycthos]

The calculators, when created, were meant to be tested with only one icon at once. This, however, does concur with my guess here, although Phoenix disagreed with me the next post.

[Desert_Shadow]

Woah... Bravo:thumbup:

[professorelite]

I do doubt the calculators were meant for 1 icon at a time testing... else the calculator here wouldn't be asking for "Actual icons of Weapon 1" and "Actual icons of Weapon 2". Looks like you've observed the paradox before too sycthos but lacked proof to prove it Well, now that is is proved I guess you can rub it in Phoenix's face? ^-^ j/k

[Cyb3rlupe]

Good Job! So what exactly is the answer? I really didn't understand what you said. Does it proove that I was right or I was wrong or tht it's more then 6 icons? Also do you still want th screenies like you said there on the board?

[professorelite]

You were both right and wrong. You were right in saying that Goo Blaster + Scarab Ring = 45 damage... wrong in saying that Scarab Ring is fractional 5.5.

[theonlysaneone]

First of all, you did a good job using a Lenny, a pet with no species resistances. I think the explanation for this lies in the fact that against weak pets, the damage is rounded down. You probably wouldn't encounter this problem in higher level pets. Good job, though. Really nice screenshots, too. I tihnk your Lenny's name is funny.

[professorelite]

I adopted the lenny because the boosts matched my Dagernite and because lennies have no resistances ^-^; The name was a bonus >.<; The sole reason the pet was adopted was to have weapons tested on it... seems almost neopet cruelty I admit... but a few rats must be sacrificed for the advancement science o.O;

[Phoenix]

sycthos Wrote:The calculators, when created, were meant to be tested with only one icon at once. This, however, does concur with my guess here, although Phoenix disagreed with me the next post.

Quote:Edit : *sigh* I forgot that "weak" pets have tendency to round down the damage of multiple icons.

perhaps you didn't read the edited post

it's actually already known, I forgot who did the testing, but they posted their test result about why the same 6 iconer weapon (one 3 type icon, the other 2 type) did the different damage.

it happen only for weak pets though.

well feel free to rub my face anytime

[professorelite]

You're right Phoenix, stronger pets seem to go by icon total rather than by each icon type. New testing proved it... don't feel like typing up the results of it though. So it seems the individual icon system is for lower-ranged pets but the current battledome calculator is fine for strong pets. Weird... I wonder at what strength boost does it make this transition.

[Phoenix]

well the theory, or whatever the name is, from the gathered data, "weak" pets are for those who under 85 str boost. Those pets will also have the small fractional icon rounded down such as the battlecards, snowballs etc.

one of the possibility is because 0.5 * 1 = 0.5...