iDB Community Forum

Several individuals have seen the pejorative effect of fractionals on battle dome weapons. A prime case of this is the Werelupe Claw. Whereas before, the W-Claw was priced at its hidden tower price of 8 mil, and was valued beyond belief, the value of this item has dropped substantially. It is now selling at 7 mil, and is under-valued.

Why? How could such a thing happen. Capitalism states that a successful item will rise in value in any market, until its fully saturated. Well, the answer to this question lies in the idea of "fractionals", where certain icons actually do less than a full icon. Of course, the battledome on Neopets.com does not display such a "fractional" picture, but rather rounds up, and calls it a full icon.

Now people caught sight of this issue, and began complaining. They figured that what this means is that ever icon in a weapon actually does less than an icon. In other words, a weapon could potentially do half of what its projected icon pictures could be. Of course, this is not at all how fractionals work, and hopefully I can dispell the myth, allay your fears, provide some case studies, and explain what really goes on in a short period of time.

Let me throw out some other weapons names out there: Sinsis Sword and Florbix Blaster. The prices of these weapons sunk catasrophically once "fractionals" were discovered. What you, as a battler, must keep in mind is that these legendary fractionals do not really influence your weapon in the grand scheme of things. Your weapon did not suddenly get worse because you've realized that its not doing EXACTLY what is displayed. It will work just the same, and just as efficiently.

Now what is fractionals? Fractionals is as a matter of fact when an icon does a fraction of an icon. From what has been determined, this fraction is consistent. Now you might ask: "Well, why are people raving about how one weapons suffers 'horrible' from fractionals?" In fact, this urban legend results from icon diversity. Fractioanls around found per icon set. That is, if a weapon has one icon set, then the last icon on that set will be a fraction. When you have three icon sets, three icons suffer from the same fractional, and thus you hvae this "increased" effect of fractionality. I'll talk about the pro's and con's to this later, but we'll leave it at that for now.

I'd like to throw out there that there are very few variable weapons (that can do a range of icon quantities) that are not fractional. Carrotblade, Werelupe Claw, Sinsis Sword, and even the incredible Faerie Slingshot all suffer from fractionals. However, it goes beyond the realm of variability. Constant weapons can also suffer from fractionals, the Florbix Blaster being a prime example.

You could easily attribute fractionals as a state of mind. A variable weapon will do an average, and rarely will that average be constant. Really, that is all you need to concern yourself with: the actual icon's done. Florbix at its 7.73 does 7.73 icons, and you need to rate and consider that weapon within that range. If you ask me, at its 500k price range, its a terrific weapon to go with. The Claw is very similar, it has an average, and that's the only thing that you should concern yourself with. Its better or worse than a hypothetical weapon that does 15 constant not because of its fractionals, but because of its average and its respective price relative to that hypothetical weapon (I'm not even going to bother putting icon diversity in there).

In other words, you need to evaluate the weapon with regards to its average and its actual icon count, rather than its displayed icon count and "fractional" impact. Fractionals are a natural part of any variable weapon, but this does not mean they are necessarily bad. Knowing how they work with regards to icon sets means that as a weapon becomes more and more diverse, it will have a greater fractional impact. Now I hate to throw that term out there because it lends to "suffers horribly from fractionals", but you need to differentiate between the two in your head. Going back to the subject matter, fractional and diversity are tradeoffs that you will need to make. I could easily argue that its a well-worth trade, because if you run into an opponent with a defensive mind, you're going to need that diversity--fractional or not.

I hope that alleviates the discussion of "fractionals" both here and elsewhere. Again, I urge you to look at the averages or actual count of the weapon and rate it within that range. Florbix Blaster does 7.73 icons, not a "horribly fractional" 8.0 icons (which is misleading since it could imply 7.1 actual icons).

As to the science of the battledome, I am still learning. At this point in my BD career, all I have to go on is what i have experienced personally. I understand the concept of fractional icons, and it seems to me this is splitting hairs. I never go into a situation expecting the best results or performance possible, as fallibility is generally legion, the same applies to the BD. As a 'noob' of sorts I expect my sticky snowballs or lost desert daggers only to perform as the have shown me in the past. Merely going off icons displayed, or advertised, is not going to win the battle. Knowing the characteristics and consistancy of your weapons during any given situation is.
Upon conclusion i would like to throw this out there, would it be a safer assumption to count and icon as .9 rather then the base 1? Better to err on the side of caution when your winning percentage is on the line.

Quote:Upon conclusion i would like to throw this out there, would it be a safer assumption to count and icon as .9 rather then the base 1? Better to err on the side of caution when your winning percentage is on the line.

Well, this is in part why I don't like variable weapons, beacuse you can't be guarenteed of the right move with them for a vast majority of the time. On the other hand, when they do turn out in your favor, whether you made the wrong move or not is no longer of any importance since you have won (for the most part).

That said, you need to be very careful when calculating things in the battledome, especially in two players. Whether a wepaon does 7.73 or 8 icons (notice how I regress to the Blaster since its constant) can actually play a large factor in deciding on what stance to go into, or what secondary weapon to use. It could be that you'll need to use berserk to win the battle if this weapon does less than 8 icons. If it does the full eight, maybe you could compromise you're berserk for fierce or a species ability, and thus reduce the chance of losing that miniscule HP that could lead you to 0 HP. This could cause you in fact, to win the battle by 1 HP.

I feel that rarely does a battle come down to absolute luck. Whether you win by 1 HP may be just that lucky stroke, but if you calculate things properly, then it no longer becomes merely luck. You could ideally calculate what you'll need to do to end up at 1 HP and still win. But this comes with knowing your weapon for what it truly is. If you use the F-Blaster thinking that it does 8 icons, then you're opponent might be the one with 1 HP and you'll cost yourself a full victory. If you miscalcualte the other way and thus use berserk in an attempt to win or tie, then you might be the one "out of luck" (so to speak) and thus reduce yourself to a loss.

Knowledge of fractionals is essential. But you need to maintain perspective on how they work, and how much they influence your decision. No weapon suffers "horribly from fractionals" such that it makes a substantial difference. This "suffering" is normally compromsied by diversity, which is a serious plus in a battle--one that could cause a win to roll in your favor.

Again, all I really wanted to do here is elicit the true meaning of the fractionals, and how they work as to allay this mysterious negative affect they seem to have.

One question though: why do some weapons suffer from fractional icons while some don't? :huh:

Quote:Originally posted by Qanda@Oct 29 2004, 08:42 AM
One question though: why do some weapons suffer from fractional icons while some don't? :huh:

Because TNT felt like it.

The current theory is that TNT has an integer they enter for battle damage for a weapon's icons that is factored the way we factor icons, though with different numbers in the forumula. This number is on a different scale than the icons. After the damage is calculated for each icon type, it bases how many icons it displays on how much damage was done, divided by the strength boost and rounded to the next whole icon.

This theory explains why there are fractionals at all, why they show icons when they're not whole, and why they sometimes don't show icons when the pet is too weak for the remaining fraction to do any damage.

Unless TNT releases their code, we'll never know for certain, though. This is just what the current thinking is based on what we've observed and tested.

I agree with this one. A weapon having fractionals doesn't mean it would really do bad. Like for florbix blaster, just because it does .27 lesser icons than the well-known 8-icon dark battle duck doesn't mean that it would really get worse.

To settle this up, and when deciding on which weapon to use (the fractional, or the full icon), use Math. Divide the total amount of the weapon by the number of icons it does.

Let's take <a style='color:red' onclick="window.open('http://idb.finalhit.org/minicheck.php?Dark Battle Duck','minicheck','width=580,height=250,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes'); return false" href='j;'>Dark Battle Duck</a> and <a style='color:red' onclick="window.open('http://idb.finalhit.org/minicheck.php?Florbix Blaster','minicheck','width=580,height=250,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes'); return false" href='j;'>Florbix Blaster</a> as example for this part. We'll use their average (or most common prices) as of today.

Name: Florbix Blaster
Cost: 650k
Icons: 7.73

650,000 np/7.73 icons = 84,087 NP per icon

Name: Dark Battle Duck
Cost: 781k (auction price average)
Icons: 8

781,000 np/8 icons = 97,625 NP per icon

Seeing the results above, when you would use the florbix blaster, you would be saving 13,538 NP per icon. This means that the Florbix Blaster is worth buying more than the Dark Battle Duck.

Also, aside from looking on how much icon the weapon would deal, it's also important to look at that types of icons it does. Remember, offense isn't the only tactic in the battledome. You should also concentrate on tactics. If you would pick the florbix blaster but let's say your other main weapon is a <a style='color:red' onclick="window.open('http://idb.finalhit.org/minicheck.php?Rancid Battle Dung','minicheck','width=580,height=250,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes'); return false" href='j;'>Rancid Battle Dung</a> does only either earth/air/water, you should consider getting a good backup weapon that would do other types of icons (in this case, zapatron 2000 or scroll of dark nova would probably be a good choice) so in case you bump on someone blocking a big part of your florbix blaster, then use your backup weapon to continue doing enough damage.

So it's your decision, you may either use...
1. Dark battle duck + rancid battle dung wherein you can do 4 types of icons, or
2. Florbix Blaster + rancid battle duck, cheaper by 131k but you need to have space for a backup weapon that does other types of icons.

Conclusion:

If you don't know what weapon to use between a full or fractional icon weapon, use the computation: Cost/number of actual icons. The weapon that ends up with a cheaper value would be better use, but remember to also consider the types of icon the weapon deals.

I hope this information helps out.

But with the cost per icon it also brings the issue of icon types which brings in really is the florbix blaster better or not. As it does have nice icon types. It means some may be blocked and some might not. Also some defensive items have fractionals just to bring it up as it seems that some think that only offensive weapons have fractionals as the majority do, but NOT all like the kau Knight Helmet for example. But even with the fractionals the icons are a good amount for the buck and Attack plus defense helps. But really knowing the amount an icon does in a certain weapons helps ALOT.

well of course a KKH is a good buy. Species weapons should not be accounted for. They are very low for their price as there are MANY out there. BUt then again, only kaus can use it, so it's effectiveness decreases.


Good post stim. Easy to understand for slow people like me :-D

I too was a believer that fractionals made weapons horrible. And I still think that some are overpriced for the damage that they do, but you have swayed my opinion a lot.

Whether a weapon has fractional icons does not matter as it still does damage for the icons not shown or doesn't do the damage for icons shown but not there. The only things that really matter to a weapon is 1) Number of icons (or net icons for dua duty weapons) 2) types of icons, being able to break both sink and burrow is important, also shields generally block lots of 2 or 3 icon types 3) price, which also figures into the price per icon. The fact that a weapon has fractional icons have nothing to do with whether to buy a weapon or not.

Disregard this please, I have nothing to say <_<

Quote:Originally posted by Jacobyts@Nov 20 2004, 09:08 AM
I agree with this one. A weapon having fractionals doesn't mean it would really do bad. Like for florbix blaster, just because it does .27 lesser icons than the well-known 8-icon dark battle duck doesn't mean that it would really get worse.

To settle this up, and when deciding on which weapon to use (the fractional, or the full icon), use Math. Divide the total amount of the weapon by the number of icons it does.

Let's take <a style='color:red' onclick="window.open('http://idb.finalhit.org/minicheck.php?Dark Battle Duck','minicheck','width=580,height=250,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes'); return false" href='j;'>Dark Battle Duck</a> and <a style='color:red' onclick="window.open('http://idb.finalhit.org/minicheck.php?Florbix Blaster','minicheck','width=580,height=250,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes'); return false" href='j;'>Florbix Blaster</a> as example for this part. We'll use their average (or most common prices) as of today.

Name: [b]Florbix Blaster
Cost: 650k
Icons: 7.73

650,000 np/7.73 icons = 84,087 NP per icon

Name: Dark Battle Duck
Cost: 781k (auction price average)
Icons: 8

781,000 np/8 icons = 97,625 NP per icon

Seeing the results above, when you would use the florbix blaster, you would be saving 13,538 NP per icon. This means that the Florbix Blaster is worth buying more than the Dark Battle Duck.

Also, aside from looking on how much icon the weapon would deal, it's also important to look at that types of icons it does. Remember, offense isn't the only tactic in the battledome. You should also concentrate on tactics. If you would pick the florbix blaster but let's say your other main weapon is a <a style='color:red' onclick="window.open('http://idb.finalhit.org/minicheck.php?Rancid Battle Dung','minicheck','width=580,height=250,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes'); return false" href='j;'>Rancid Battle Dung</a> does only either earth/air/water, you should consider getting a good backup weapon that would do other types of icons (in this case, zapatron 2000 or scroll of dark nova would probably be a good choice) so in case you bump on someone blocking a big part of your florbix blaster, then use your backup weapon to continue doing enough damage.

So it's your decision, you may either use...
1. Dark battle duck + rancid battle dung wherein you can do 4 types of icons, or
2. Florbix Blaster + rancid battle duck, cheaper by 131k but you need to have space for a backup weapon that does other types of icons.

Conclusion:

If you don't know what weapon to use between a full or fractional icon weapon, use the computation: Cost/number of actual icons. The weapon that ends up with a cheaper value would be better use, but remember to also consider the types of icon the weapon deals.

I hope this information helps out. [/b]

Your logic is flawed. A spark shooter costs 100 nps and does 3 icons. Thus is price is 33 np per icon. But you dont see anything saying the Sparkshooter is worth buying more than a DBD, even if 96,000 NIC less. The iconage compared to the price should not be treated linearly, but expotionally. Thus the price differnt between a 3 icon weapon and a 6 icon weapon should be alot less than the differnt between a 12 icon and 15, ect...

As for fractions, I think there TNT's way of trying to get people into thinking items are more powerful than they really are, and yet having a simple forumal so the observant battler gets the advantage, sorta like with the hidden tower. It allso allows them to have weapons of all strgh and weaknesses. :)

The one thing I wonder is why there are never any postive fractional. It would make more sence for a 8 icons to do 8.1 icons of dmg than for 9 icons to do 8.1 icons of dmg :P