I have to admit that I don't understand all the fuss over "Downsize!". I'll give a little background, and I'll say why. I started out in the battledome training and trying weapons on my own and I liked the idea of training my pet's defense up. I tried out downsize for myself and I find it to be a let-down. In fact, I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no reason to ever use a weapon that can't do damage.
I have found that I never break even versus an attack using a downsize in one player or two player and I see no tactics for using it and one might as well throw it out there randomly. Am I missing what everyone else sees in this weapon or is it as over-rated as I see it? I would really like some input from any and all!
I can't see how blocking half of anything (even if it is half of everything) can help lead to anyone's victory. It seems the whole point is to decimate your opponent asap. Coming to this conclusion as someone who has always fought defensively (using virtupets shield, leaf shield, training defense, etcetera) is kind of depressing I like fighting defensively but I worry that it is a waste.
I do agree, I've never liked it except in a bomb situation where I wasn't frozen, which is generally rare. Defense isn't overrated, you just need to find the right amount of icons and the right types to defend. That get's a little tougher when you're an intermediate battler before getting a G-sheild, unless you have a good species.
thefishguy Wrote:In fact, I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no reason to ever use a weapon that can't do damage.
While I very largely agree with that statement, you say this despite using shields? Or you used to use shields?
In One Player, Downsize! is another method besides Burrow and Sink to survive against Opponents several times stronger than your Pet. The important thing isn't dealing damage, but netting more damage against your Opponent than your Opponent nets against you, and netting the most possible "collective" damage (which includes defensive tactics). If using Downsize! during a turn causes you to deflect more damage than you can deal, then you've used it properly.
I think downsize! is great for extracting the most HP possible from a healer. It's also good for stalling to see what weapons your opponents have or on the first turn.
Downsize! is a situational weapon whose use gets more and more apparent as you continue to deal with stronger and stronger opponents with stronger and stronger weapons. Blocking half of an opponents attack is definitely significant, and it's not just for anti-bomb situations, as kingofaces has put it. There are plenty of weapons that crosses the 15 icon mark at intermediate and advanced level. Cutting half of that will ensure that the opponent can hit you with about 7.5 icons per weapon, which is even weaker that the now very common 9 iconers floating around in the market.
Of course, the argument that most people would have is that
Downsize! is useful for once per battle , which is "hardly useful". To me, that's like saying a bomb, or faerie abilities like Drain Life, Sink and Burrow is not useful, especially at beginning and early mid level battling.
Also, there are very few shields that can be used as effectively by both the defensive trained and the non-defensive trained pets. Full or percentage shields are usually 1 or 2 iconed, rare, and EXPENSIVE. Yes, the last factor (price for its value) is the key reason why people regard it so highly.
As for tactical use,
Downsize! is useful at:
1) the beginning stages of a battle, where you are not sure what icons of attack your opponent are using. Throwing
Downsize! could help you to identify
some of the weapons he or she uses, and thus will help you plot your strategy from there.
2) in the middle of the battle, where you choose at that time to maximise your healing while minimising the damage you take. Eg you can use
Downsize! when you are healing with your healer AND a faerie ability that heals for example. You are pretty much assured that no matter what type of icon and how much attack your opponent throws at you, you are guaranteed that his power is minimised by half.
3) at the end of the battle, where equally strong pets are at level, and you want to ensure that you get to hit him with a finishing attacking move, without compromising your defensives and fall into trap of using a shield that doesn't defend against the weapon your opponent is using for that round. You have the edge of not having to worry about choosing the wrong choice of shields.
I'm pretty much with Cadaver on this one. I have a Downsize!, though I rarely equip it and view it as one of a number of alternatives for the #8 slot in by battleset, depending upon the situation and opponent, and what I know or don't know about them. In answer to the question is Downsize! overrated - Yes and No. It's overrated if it's seen as a great weapon, or a cornerstone of your battleset - it just isn't that good, and its advantages vary so much from situation to situation. It's NOT overrated at all in that for the price, it's cheap, can be useful, and isn't easily outgrown. It STILL maintains its value in as you progress through several hundreds of training points. It buys you time to do something else you want to do (run a stealer, a healer, a freezer, etc.). And remember you are getting hit by 50% of the attack you receive BUT, you're also using one inexpensive weapon to block 50% of the opponent's first weapon, 50% of the opponent's second weapon and 50% of any offense he generates from his faerie/species ability slot as well. That makes it VERY useful. In sum, it's not a dominating weapon one, but a very useful one, cheaply priced, and its value can be increased or decreased depending upon how well you pick the situations in which its used. But for the nps, it's great value.
Each time a topic like this comes up, i think about the 5 (or 6) items that are 100% blockers.
Downsize power plus
Thick smoke bomb
t tear
castle defenders shield
force shield?
And I try to immagine the level of frustration of going up against somebody who I couldn't touch for the first 5 rounds.
Nightwind Wrote:And I try to immagine the level of frustration of going up against somebody who I couldn't touch for the first 5 rounds.
Only Tear and the Bomb, to my knowledge, are still in popular use. And seeing as Thick Smoke Bomb isn't limited to one, a person can just run up to eight of those. More than two would probably be overdoing it, though. The full healers (which would be a better option, generally speaking) are all limited to one.
There aren't many methods I can think of to abuse Thick Smoke Bomb. Trying to wait out a Freeze from a Black Frost Cannon is the only strategy that comes to mind, but odds are if you're in Two Player you already got froze at it stops mattering (or you have a guaranteed Freezer sitting in another Item slot). The positive aspect would be adding Burrow and Sink to work as extra full blockage, but your Opponent would likely sit there swinging their constants, or finding a way to defend against yours, and you're very likely not gaining any advantage by having so many full-blockers, especially since they're taking up the slots where other weapons could be.
One Player's a slightly different story (using two Thick Smoke Bombs in the same battle could be useful), but for most strategies only one is necessary and you're aiming for a double-freeze anyway.
I never caught that you could go multiple on the thick smoke bombs, this really does give me intersting ideas of how to spend large amounts of np uselessly in single player
I just use D!pp. It blocks almost everything. It was a good invesment I believe.
Downsize is pretty useful if you have low def compared to the rest of your stats, since it'll will block more than any shield could. Other good thing about downsize is that it block 50% of all types of icons, useful if you have no idea of what will your opponent throw at you. As stated above it can be used to maximize healing or to resist a last turn. This weapon looks far from useless for me.
A weapon that seems useless to your current set and stats, doesn't mean it's useless for everybody. I use it pretty ofter and it has saved my... back a lot of times and I've been using it for a lot of time.