iDB Community Forum

It's been awhile since I was on Neopets for any real length of time and I feel kinda like I've fallen out of the battle loop. So I thought I'd put my stats and equipment up for evaluation.

First up, my stats. I'm including movement and intelligence because I actually train those when I can as I have a feeling that more equipment, especially Brightvales perhaps, might require either of those attributes as some of their equipment already does.

Level : 97

Health : 170 / 160
Strength : ULTIMATE (155)
Defence : LEGENDARY (147)
Move : LEGENDARY (136)
Intelligence : ULTIMATE GENIUS (434)

Equipment stands thusly.

Downsize!
Honey Potion
Ramtors Spellbook
Greater Healing Scroll
Earthen Scorchstone
Leaf Shield
Double Dryer
Bubble Blaster

As you can see I've gotten cheaply geared up for air defense. That's because I'm going against the Giant Ghostkerchief for the DoN. Believe it or not, I've actually gotten close to beating him with this set.

So, how does my set rank?
Just so you guys know, I have things such as scarab rings, scrolls, Peophin gear and other equipment I can swap out depending on who I face. I usually battle 1-player opponents so I can comb through the IDB archives and find weapons that cost little but can be combined for good effects.
Right now I'm not sure what to buy next, or how much I'm willing to spend. As mentioned in the other thread I started, I'm looking at buying a Golden Peophin Harp. I don't usually use a freezer but once in a while they're needed when facing an opponent that's much stronger. Like the Giant Ghostkerchief. I'm also a Peophin collectorm which is the other reason I want to get hold of a GPH for my gallery.

I really don't like the idea of giving up almost half a year's worth of Neopoints on the GPH, but I'll probably never get the chance to RS one myself. That's right, it takes me months to make 4 mil. Heck, it takes months to make 1 mil I'm mostly a gamer and gamers get so screwed on the payouts.

Stats
--------
Train your level to 100. Push Defense up to 200 once you're done with Level. Then health should go all the way to 300 plus movement to 200, and last but not least read books until 1000 intelligence just in case you ever want to buy an Heavy Blue Tunic.

You may have noticed I'm not suggesting Strength for you. This is because Strength is a SEVERELY overvalued stat that really can be achieved much easier using better weapons. That's why, for most people, I don't suggest training strength past the 125 boost.
Defense, on the other hand, can only be replaced with Full-Blockers and Reflectors, and those are much more expensive than just upgrading your weapons every so often.

Set
----
Downsize!-Sell. It hardly defends anything. Replace with Ring of the Lost instead because you only have one attacker.
Honey Potion-Keep. Do I really have to go over why?
Ramtors Spellbook- Sell and buy Staff of Righteous Fury which does an average a bit higher than this weapon. Yet it's cheaper by almost 50% so it's better.
Greater Healing Scroll-Sell. Buy a Crisp Blue Tunic instead. You have too many hitpoints now for the GHS to be of any help to you.The Tunic will drain 100 health points from your opponent and defend. However, train that intelligence to 750 first so you'll be able to use this.
Earthen Scorchstone-Keep. If you need cheap air defense this is the way to go. 4.5 Air defended is great for 3k.
Leaf Shield-Sell. Don't replace with anything though.
Double Dryer-Down the toilet this goes. You already have enough air Defense. Don't put anything else in though.
Bubble Blaster-Keep.One of the most underrated weapons in neopia is yours. Cherish it.


YOUR NEW SET
--------------
Ring of the Lost
Honey Potion
Staff of Righteous Fury
Crisp Blue Tunic
Earthen Scorchstone
Bubble Blaster

You may wonder why I left two slots vacant. Those slots are for extra items if you ever need them (which I don't think you will). Besides, you dont have anything to put in those slots. Sticky Hands would not be able to steal anything, since the last five or six DON opponents don't have much worth stealing anyway, and you said you didn't want a freezer.
Well, that's it for me here. Have a nice day. Oh and BTW:

GO BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL Tomato, I happen to be a Packers fan. Pretty cool that fans of two rival teams can meet on the net. I'm still not sure who I'm going to root for though today. At least the bears are in our mutual division. Then again, they are "Da Bears". I just hope it's a good game.

Alright. I don't understand why you say training strength beyond the 125 boost is pointless. I never did understand the weird way the BD system is set up. ^_^; Perhaps you could explain why the 125 boost is the place to stop worrying about offensive power? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.

I'm heading toward the 200 mark right now for my defense. It took me months of visiting Von Roo to get below level 100 so I won't be going back there until I'm done training the lower stats at the lower price.

As for Intelligence, for the moment my goal is 500 so I can buy a Short Sleeved Yellow Tunic to replace my GHS. While I do like the Crisp Blue Tunic and even the Heavy Blue Tunic It's way more than I want to spend on a single item. At least right now. Plus there's the cost of extra books, or the dozens of hours I'd spend playing cliffhanger to get my pet's intelligence up. Agility I'm planning on getting to 200 in case I ever want the Heavy Robe Of Thievery. But it would be nice if there was a cheaper way to gain agility than spending expensive codestones on it.

I'm hoping to get a good prize from NQ2 Evil this go-around, hopefully something that will fetch a nice amount of NP, then I'm going to try playing Insane and see what I can get out of that. So I may be able actually avoid having to buy the SoRF depending on what I get from Insane.

LOL The bubble blaster and double dryer are kind of a joke. It was just some more air-defense things I could throw in there at a cheap price. When going up against a powerful opponent every little bit helps.. Now the triple dryer would really do a number on the Ghostkerchief's Ghostkersword.

Thanks for the advice, when I upgrade my battle set I'll definitely take a good hard look at your suggestions.

Alright, as a fan of the Picksburgh Stillerz, I gotta say the Packers are the smartest team in the league, and I hope Favre makes it to the Superbowl next year. Now with that outta the way

Brian Wrote:First up, my stats. I'm including movement and intelligence because I actually train those when I can as I have a feeling that more equipment, especially Brightvales perhaps, might require either of those attributes as some of their equipment already does.

Likely, but may or may not be worth the cost now. Only time will tell.

Quote:Level : 97

Health : 170 / 160
Strength : ULTIMATE (155)
Defence : LEGENDARY (147)
Move : LEGENDARY (136)
Intelligence : ULTIMATE GENIUS (434)

Your level is getting close to the point where it will cost you more to train. You should make it a higher priority to get your other stats closer to half your level to stop training for costing you more in the future.

Quote:Equipment stands thusly.

Downsize!
Honey Potion
Ramtors Spellbook
Greater Healing Scroll
Earthen Scorchstone
Leaf Shield
Double Dryer
Bubble Blaster

On first glance
Bubble Blaster has got to go and you NEED a freezer.

Quote:As you can see I've gotten cheaply geared up for air defense. That's because I'm going against the Giant Ghostkerchief for the DoN. Believe it or not, I've actually gotten close to beating him with this set.

Hrm, if you're willing to use a couple 1-shot items, for the Ghostkerchief try this:

Snowglobe Staff or the fragile Scroll of Freezing)
Shooting Star Muffin
Thick Smoke Bomb
Downsize!
Honey Potion
Greater Healing Scroll
Double Dryer
Ramtors Spellbook

Turn 1: No weapons + Diamond Dust repeat until you get the freeze and he uses Jade Scorchstone and either P-Mirror or G-Shield here.

Turn 2: H-Potion + RSB x Berserk, dealing about 108 hp.

Turn 3: Double Dryer + Snowglobe Staff + Burrow. Withdraw if you don't get the freeze. Alternately the Scroll of Freezing makes this easier, but that is fragile.

Turn 4: He's frozen again, so Muffin+RSB x Berserk for another 112 points of damage.

Turn 5: Thick Smoke Bomb + Double Dryer + Species Ability. If he uses G-sword here, or used G-Sword on Turn 3, you win. If he used G-Bomb on either of those, his only remaining offense is the G-Sword.

Turn 6: Downsize! + Double Dryer + Species Ability

Turn 7: Greater Healing Scroll + Double Dryer + Species Ability

Turn 8+: Double Dryer + Rsb + Improved Defend

Quote:So, how does my set rank?

Honestly, pretty low for general usage. You have no freezer, not even a Snowglobe Staff, your best offensive constant is 10 very predictable icons, and your other offensive constant is a measly 4 icons. You healer is the weakest worth using at you stats, you have a 50% air reflector in your lineup, which isn't going to be worthwhile against any weapon in or around your price range (not even WoR) and at only 50% is going to be questionable against even the big-gun air weapons of G-sword, SotAF and PCC. You have 2 shields, one of which only blocks a maximum of 9 icons and you also have Downsize!, so you're overloaded on defense and underequipped on offense.

Now I realize that this set is tooled against a specific 1p opponent, so evaluating it on those general terms isn't fair, but you haven't beat him yet, when it is totally possible to do so on your budget at your stats, so the set fails on that criteria too.

Quote:Just so you guys know, I have things such as scarab rings, scrolls, Peophin gear and other equipment I can swap out depending on who I face. I usually battle 1-player opponents so I can comb through the IDB archives and find weapons that cost little but can be combined for good effects.

That's good, knowledge really is key, and for many 1p opponents you're more cost effective having a toolkit to select from than paying hunreds of thousands more for a single weapon with more icons.

Quote:Right now I'm not sure what to buy next, or how much I'm willing to spend. As mentioned in the other thread I started, I'm looking at buying a Golden Peophin Harp. I don't usually use a freezer but once in a while they're needed when facing an opponent that's much stronger. Like the Giant Ghostkerchief. I'm also a Peophin collectorm which is the other reason I want to get hold of a GPH for my gallery.

You need a freezer. If you are only battling 1player you can get by with a Snowglobe Staff and a withdraw and repeat strategy. If you are battleing 2 player you sadly have to either ask for no-freeze matches or pay 5 million np to play the game.

Quote:I really don't like the idea of giving up almost half a year's worth of Neopoints on the GPH, but I'll probably never get the chance to RS one myself.

Don't totally give up on the Black or Rainbow Frost Cannons either. They're not as good as 100% freezers, but they are better than people think, having overall usefulness slightly better than a 10 icon weapon in most fights.

Quote:That's right, it takes me months to make 4 mil. Heck, it takes months to make 1 mil I'm mostly a gamer and gamers get so screwed on the payouts.

Then you are an inefficient gamer. Read these:

http://www.neopets.com/~windagame

http://www.neopets.com/~ArcticPal

Together they will give you the tools and strategies to make around 500k-1 mil per month with about 5-10 minutes per day. And they are both game guides.

Tomato Wrote:You may have noticed I'm not suggesting Strength for you. This is because Strength is a SEVERELY overvalued stat that really can be achieved much easier using better weapons. That's why, for most people, I don't suggest training strength past the 125 boost.
Defense, on the other hand, can only be replaced with Full-Blockers and Reflectors, and those are much more expensive than just upgrading your weapons every so often.

That is terrible advice.

At the 125 boost, you will deal 3 damage per icon. With the 200 boost, you will deal 4.5 damage per icon - an 50% increase in attack power.

For you to train from the 125 boost to the 200 boost will take roughly 180 codestones (you are already at 155 str - and you are at the 4 codestone training level). Assuming each codestone costs 5,000 nps, it will take 900k to train to the 200 str boost.

Currently you have a ramtors spellbook in your set - which deals 10 constant icons. This means you will need to upgrade to a weapon that deals ~15 icons of damage to match the same damage output you could get from training. The most cost effective weapons I can think of that fit this bill are Wand of Reality/Bow of Destiny (both cost around 3 million and do 13 constant icons - cost more, and deal less damage than training) and Sword of Skardsen (10 million - but would deal 16.25 - 24 icons).

Even if we assume that codestones had a 10k (or more) price tag each, it would still be more cost effective to train than to upgrade equipment.

Tomato Wrote:You may have noticed I'm not suggesting Strength for you. This is because Strength is a SEVERELY overvalued stat that really can be achieved much easier using better weapons. That's why, for most people, I don't suggest training strength past the 125 boost.

Maybe the "for most people" part of the above quote will give you some cover, but my initial reaction is that this comment is wrong-minded in the extreme.

Stop training strength at 125? Why would anyone do that? Like pedro said, the jump between 125 and 200 str is significant -- you could upgrade a 10-iconer to a 13-iconer instead of training, but you'd actually do less damage and pay much more NP than you would if you simply trained. See:

Scuzzy's Comb (10 icons)+berserk at 200 boost: 68 damage. Cost: 275k + 900k for training (probably less).
WoR (13 icons)+berserk at 125 boost: 59 damage. Cost: 3.3 mil.

Seriously. I think you're a well-meaning person, but some of the advice you've given around here (like on CadaverGrey's thread) stinks. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but seriously. If you're going to make wild claims that contradict what pretty much everyone else who battles thinks, back them up with reasons.

I agree with you that Training is more cost effective. However, for people who don't have a lot of patience, it would be better for them to upgrade weapons then it would be to slug through 300 hours a month of training. And besides, not everything in the BD should be based around cost, which is one of the worst things about todays BD. Everyone bases what to do with their set & training on what the lowest possible cost is, and never on what's right for them.
For instance, how often these days do you see a Dark Battle Duck? I'll wager that you'll say never. That's because everyone believes that it is worthless to have a DBD when you could have a Stone Club with more power for 1/10th of the price. Well, I'm going to tell you something that will scare you a bit, but it's the true fact instead of the false stupidity that most people believe.

THE STONE CLUB IS THE REAL WORTHLESS WEAPON!!!!!!!!!!!
How in the name of featheralley have people NOT figured this out yet???The stone club deals two of the easiest to block Icons, while the DBD deals the hardest to block icons in the dome. However, since the Stone Club costs 99k, versus the DBD at 300k, people automatically think the DBD is worthless and the Stone Club is the best weapon in history.Those people are dead wrong.
If a weapon is less likely to be blocked, then it's a better weapon. Simple as that.I am just disgusted with the people on the IDB fourms who think the other way around.
Goodbye, good riddance, and good luck getting anywhere in the BD to all of you, cuz I am not coming back to these fourms anymore. I'll use BD guides instead. Have a nice life, everyone.
Tomato.

I don't know which forums you've been reading, but you don't seem to know much about any of us. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Wow, you guys certainly gave me a lot to read through!

Pedro and Pilotgrarrl, thanks for talking about the strength boost thing. I don't see how not training strength would help as was originally suggested, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll work on strength as well.
Pedro, unfortunately since it takes me so long to build up NPs I'm hesitant to invest so much in a superior weapon. I'm going to try going the NQ2 Insane route first and see what happens. I'm looking at buying a freezer, the Golden Peophin Harp, both for battling and my collection, and that should run me about 4 mil. Which should take me about half a year to make up, maybe a little longer with work and all.

As to the rest of your advice. Regarding stats. I originally started trying to level down months ago, but ended up getting to about level 120. Von Roo was very unlucky. And it was only recently that I got back down to level 97. I'm not sure if I'll try Von Roo anymore unless I need to level up. But as it stands I'm going to be spending my codestones to increase my strength and defense mostly. Keep them nice and balanced. I think that's what you were getting at, right?

Regarding weapons. I do indeed have a scroll of freezing and a snowglobe staff. Wait, strike that. It seems my SoF is missing. Oh well. I do have the staff. I think I'll give your strategy a try.

Unfortunately my pet doesn't have Improved Defend. I don't know how to get it or if it's even still possible to get it.

*nods* Right. If this were against say, the witch doctor I'd have the air defenders gone and have dark defenders like my Mighty Peophin Helmet and maybe a Ultra Dark Reflectorb, plus a stickyhand to steal his dark scroll. Which is what I did do. But I see what you're saying. I'm too much of a budget battler and could use some more remarkable items.

Thanks. When I battled a lot I was always pouring through the IDB ratings getting a feel for which weapons might come in handy someday. I used to help friends build their sets on meager budgets too, when they were starting out battling. But I always directed them to the IDB for more advanced advice if they wanted it.

Thanks for the game guides. As Neopets has "evolved" I've been getting more frustrated with the site and the new games that have been coming out could really use better play control imo. Before all these changes to the games lineup began I was making about 300-400k a month on my own. About 240k was due to the game bilge dice. But that's become almost impossible to max out on without many hours of continuous play and lots of reserve np in the bank. I will definitely check out those game guides. Thanks again.


Wow, the infamous Sir_hatter posted in a thread I started. I'm honored.

Thanks for that breakdown between training increases and weapon increases Cranberry. That clears things up a fair bit.

Wow Tomato, I hope you do come back. Just because people disagree with your advice doesn't mean you should quit. As for the people here at the IDB I've been registered for nearly 2 years now and while I've had a testy moment or two they're friendly people who know what they're talking about.
Nobody likes to hear that their set is subpar for their stats, as was pointed out to me here. But it's facing the challenges that make you stronger. Heck, I've actually been called Crazy for not keeping a freezer in my set.
But that's one of the reasons I like using less popular and often times weaker weaponry against stronger opponents. To prove you don't have to have popular weapons to win. Sometimes you've got to go with the popular weapons though because they are the best for your situation. Sure I almost never use a freezer, but I have been able to beat opponents with freezers and better weapons. That's 1-playr and 2-player opponents. And yes I've lost to them as well. That happens, it's part of the game. You did give me some good advice. The strength boost thing just wasn't a piece that works for me. So no hard feelings over that. ok?

Tomato Wrote:The stone club deals two of the easiest to block Icons, while the DBD deals the hardest to block icons in the dome. However, since the Stone Club costs 99k, versus the DBD at 300k, people automatically think the DBD is worthless and the Stone Club is the best weapon in history.Those people are dead wrong.

Just in case somebody else were to think that whatever he said makes sense, here's my take on it:

Stone Club - 3 air, 3 earth, 3 physical - 9 icons

Dark battle Duck - 5 water, 3 dark - 8 icons

Result: Stone Club  wins (and is cheaper)



Now let's look at 4 possible scenarios:


Scenario 1:

Leaf Shield - Blocks 5 earth, 5 water, 3 physical

A Stone Club will get 3 air past the shield. - 3 icons through

A Dark Battle Duck will get 3 dark past the shield. - 3 icons through

Result: Tie (though value wise, Stone Club wins)


Scenario 2:

Mystical White Cloak - Blocks 3 air, 3 dark, 3 light

A Stone Club will get 3 earth and 3 physical past the shield. - 6 icons through

A Dark Battle Duck will get 5 water past the shield. - 5 icons through

Result: Stone Club  wins (and is cheaper)


Scenario 3:

Earthen Scorchstone - Blocks 5 air, 5 dark

A Stone Club will get 3 earth and 3 physical past the shield. - 6 icons through

A Dark Battle Duck will get 5 water past the shield. - 5 icons through

Result: Stone Club  wins (and is cheaper)


Scenario 4:

Patched Magic Hat - Blocks 5 earth, 3 light, 3 physical, with an additional 3 physical defence if the user receive air damage from their opponent.

A Stone Club will get 3 air past the shield. - 3 icons through

A Dark Battle Duck will get 5 water and 3 dark past the shield. - 8 icons through

Result: Dark Battle Duck  wins (but is more expensive).


Conclusion:


Stone Club does more damage than Dark Battle Duck when used against 3 out 4 of the most common shields in the market. Dark Battle Duck is more useful in situational use. However, with the chances of running into a variety of common shields being higher than situational use PLUS the price being far cheaper, Stone Club is the winner.

So... Stone Club is not a useless weapon, though neither is Dark Battle Duck. I dunno how the idea that people think Dark Battle Duck is worthless came about (perhaps it's from my own comment from one of the other threads where he had also suggested).

As powerful as Dark Battle Duck may be with that water icon is (forget the dark. It's so easy to block.), a more viable, stronger and CHEAPER option is Pike Pike, which I do not know why, but it seems that he has overlooked.

Maybe it's less mono-iconed ish than he would have prefered...